I've been a member of GSCO for a number of years now. For a long time I monitored this forum without registering. I enjoyed the posts. I registered a couple of years ago. My question is: Where is everyone? No one wants to talk sheep and sheep hunting? I participate in a couple of forums relating to my other hobby, (training retrievers) and the forums are overloaded. People on there having chats about their passion. This one seem to have just gone silent. What gives?

My observation is that this is the way it has been all along. Possibly sheep hunters are a closed group who share thoughts and secrets begrudgingly. Who knows? Best way to get such conversations going, at least on a limited scale, is to get involved with your nearest organized group of sheep hunters and get to the conventions. Involvement can lead to more communications, at least on a local scale and on local issues. As for communications on a broader scale (i.e. via GSC/Ovis website), it is unlikely given the inherent nature of sheep hunters. Great but cautious people.

Oregoncarl...I know what you mean about sheep hunters being secretive... No one is asking for the GPS coordinates to their honey holes. My point is that the forum was set up to communicate, which I've noticed that you are one of the few who actually do on a regular basis and Ramdreamer who is an amazing resource for people like me who apply in all the states and participate in all the raffles (Thanks Ramdreamer!. The young lady submitted a post about her husband being interested in sheep hunting, but with all the experienced hunters that view this forum, no one replied. In general, the hunting world is getting smaller, not larger. Take a look at the faces in the convention photos. Not many youngsters!! I know part of that is because those of us with gray hair (if we still have hair!) are the one's who can afford the hunts. Even GSCO has recognized that by doing the raffle for young hunters, which I think is a great idea.
Anyway, thanks for your reply. I would agree that sheep hunters are cautious about where they hunt, but I have known more than one sheep hunter who would talk your ears off!!

Huntinman-
I know what you mean about the younger generation not being outdoorsmen/hunters. I have be lucky enough to grow up in a hunting family and have a father who is a desert sheep away from completeing his 2nd slam. I dont think the younger group <30 is as driven and hunting means as much as it does to say the group that is 45+. Sheep hunting has become a VERY expensive endevor. I myself am 28 and have taken a Dall Sheep and a Stone Sheep. Unless I win the lottery or marry a weathly wife getting the desert and bighorn only seem like a dream (unless I draw a tag of course). What is the drawing that Grand Slam offers for the younger hunters? Thanks for you help.
DAS

fulldraw, you are right about the younger generation. They have so much more to do than when I was growing up. I am 51 and when I was a kid, the only thing I really thought much about was our next hunting trip. It was just a given that we would hunt whatever was in season and fish in the off-season. My son is 18 and loves to hunt and has had some really good success for a young guy, but he does not eat, sleep and breathe it the way my brothers and I did when we were that age (and still do!)
You are fortunate that you have your Stone, congratulations! At least you have the chance to draw the other two. I drew an AZ desert a few years ago with 9 points, so anything is possible. The raffle I mentioned was available at the convention last year (must be present to win). It was called Slamquest. For hunters between the ages of 21-39 only. The raffle was for a Dall, but with the opportunity to change to a Rocky or Stone for a $10,000 donation. Not bad! Good luck on finding that wealthy wife! The odds are probably about the same as drawing a tag.

Huntinman- I live for hunting season. I dont know what it will take or if anything can make someone want to climb mountains, sleep in a tent, ride horses and eat freeze dried food to chase of a wild animal. I think kids today mostly like their internet, Ipods, cell phones, and easy lifestyles. Maybe if the demand for hunts begins to decrease, the price might also go down. If you want, shoot me your email address and maybe share some pics of our sheep?

Fulldraw, sent you an e-mail...

Well, speaking of eating, sleeping & breathing hunting, and spending the life's savings to do it - I'm having a LOT of trouble sleeping lately.... I am 8 days, 8 hours and 40 minutes away from leaving for a stone sheep hunt. Mapquest tells me that the drive will take 23.5 hours to get to the float plane dock in Watson Lake Yukon. It sounds like the trip is going to be mostly backpack into rugged country where horses can't go, but there will be support from the horses to get close to the zone. No worries though - I've been training 3 to 7 days a week for two years, and I'm in the best shape of my life...

I think that qualifies as an addiction!

Good Luck on your upcoming hunt Tomahawk! I was lucky to shoot my Stone on 8/5/09. My brother killed his on 8/1/09, and my dad on 8/6/09. So I think its a good year for stones. shoot me an email and I can send you some pics to get the blood flowing even more!!

Good luck on your hunt Tomahawk!

Fulldraw, you should post your pics of those beautiful rams for all of us to enjoy...

Where do I post them at, and I will. Thanks

I don't know how to do it. Maybe someone with more experience on the forum can help?? There is a toolbar at the top of this thread...under New is a drop down menu...select photo album and then the thread category...That MIGHT get you there. Anyone?

Ya, thanks for the good wishes Huntinman. I hope the weather straightens out a bit. I'm going with Darwin Cary's outfit and it sounded like their first hunts were plauged by forest fires, but there has been some rain and they are all out now.

The gear is all ready to go, just got to pull the rifle, cash and optics out of the safe and hit the road. All the gear is tried and true, except that I picked up a Western Mountaineering down sleeping bag, and had a scabbard made for my rifle (with a bighorn carved into it of course)...

Going back to the initial idea about stimulating discussions ... dsicussions can go two general ways. One is about individual hunts, etc. The other about issues of general importance etc. I practice immigration law. I participate in an e-mail "community" of Portland region immigration attorneys. Our e-mail exchanges go similarly to what goes on here; Broad issues get almost no discussion. But back to one issue alluded to so far ... that of the rising costs of mountain sheep hunting. Even though it seems there are relatively fewer young hunters as compared to 30 or 40 years ago, that won't have a lot to do with the future costs of sheep hunting. The population of the World is growing. As it increases, wildlife lose more and more habitat. Under supply-demand pressures, price goes up as wildlife numbers decrease and/or hunter numbers increase. [Plus of 'local' concern, there are many European and Asian hunters 'discovering' North American sheep hunting.]
Rest assured that in 20 to 30 years, there is a good chance that you will look back on these as the days of the cheap hunts. I look back in hazy fondness of the 'good-old-days'. In the mid-1970s I got several quotes [I have the letters] for 14 day BC Stone sheep hunts at $3500 to 3600. Save the deer, elk, moose hunts for later, unless you absolutely must do backpack alpine mule deer hunts. Find a way to scrape together the cash to do the physically demanding hunts while you are relatively young. I was 49 when I did my first sheep hunt (DIY Dall in the TMA) and 63 for my last North American hunt (Dall in the Talkeetnas). I plan on doing more mountain hunting. There are some people who have a real need for the special challenge of mountain hunting.
Meet the challenges and make the memories now.

Oregoncarl, I don't remember far enough back to recall $3,500 Stone sheep hunts...but it wasn't all that long ago that you could hunt Dalls in Alaska guided for that price (early 80's). Luckily for me, I lived up there for 21 years and was able to hunt the Alaskan animals for the cost of a tag and air taxi costs... Ah...the good old day's!! Have hunted Tok, Wrangells, and 14C in the Chugach. Those Chugach hunts would be very tough on me now, But when you are in your 20's & 30's you just put your head down and bull your way through the alders!

Huntinman

When you moved Outside, you moved a ways if you are in Tennessee. I went no further than Washington. I put in two tours in Alaska. In Juneau 1974-78 (USCG) and in Anchorage 1988-1991 (USINS). I got drawn for a TMA tag in 1990 and partnered up with a fellow who couldn't climb (i.e. arthritis) after the wet snow on the 3rd day. 40-Mile Air dropped us just downstream of Tok Glacier. It was really unfortunate because we saw 3 rams together ... 2 full curl and the bigger one being a real HOG. In 2004 I drew 14C N Eagle River and went with Dan Montgomery. The Gov. tag holder went in and took the 168+ B&C ram about 4 days before I got there so Dan put me in the Talkeetnas. In 2005 I drew TMA for a second time but didn't go. I cancelled all hunting that year as I didn't feel much into it. Lo and behold, March 2006 brought 6 bypasses. The improved circulation is nice to have. Since then I've done a BC Mt. goat hunt and an overseas ibex hunt. I'm waiting to draw my desert tag to complete the "basic 4". I really want to get the 'full 6'; I need a true Stone and a California bighorn. GOT TO KEEP ATTACKING THOSE MOUNTAINS AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.
As for my times in Alaska, I'd still be there but for family reasons. I did love the North Country. Glad to hear that you took full advantage of the opportunities to hunt when you lived there. A lot of people go North and do nothing but complain. What a horrible waste of a really special opportunity.

Group,

tidbit here. I am the "new" guy in town. Saw this discussion and thought I'd like to make a comment.

Been doing this all my life (I'm now 58). I DO remember sheep hunts for $3500.00 dollars (that was expensive then just like now). The first Mongolia trip was about $6000.00 booked through Klineburger Brothers in Seattle Wa.. I beleive that was 83 or 84. That was a long time ago. Prices have been going up ever since---I do not see this changing even with the economic climate here in the USA and elsewhere. I believe the prices will continue to escalate as long as we pay the higher prices. I just chatted with a booking agent who qouted me $17,000.00 for a Dall sheep hunt? Wow, I have not been out for several of years and it seemed above average for me--maybe not. I do not have the Big 4---it would be nice but I just wanted to do other things. Wish I would have gotten the Desert Sheep when it was a bit easier to get the tag without the expense of going to Mexico. I don't know that I want to put that much into the hunt.

About participation on the discussion boards: I too wonder about it all. Other boards/ forums, Monster Muleys as an example, have many members who contribute regularly. Perhaps there is more mule deer hunters. Perhaps it is a privacy thing---a "honey hole" so to speak---I doubt it. Most guys get their sheep and then move on to something else. I know several hunters who just will not pay the prices and have had a lifetime of fun chasing other game. It does not bother them that they don't have all the sheep of North America or a Super Slam. I'm kinda one of those guys. After all, hunting is about enjoying the experience---right? But I would like to collect a Desert sheep---any ideas?

The way to keep this all going is to chat with everybody. Some guys just don't care about talking on the internet: having to register and creat a password and username just takes time and they will not spend the time to do it. This board requires you to register and then confirm your registration before you can use the forum. I beleive that most members here participate in Safari Club and GSCO. Aagin, maybe not. I am a past member of Safari club; Wonderful organization. Many fine people and a great place to meet outfitters and booking agents. I just think all the awards have gotten out of control---and by the way, there are fees associated with all those awards. If that suits you then by all means participate. I never found the allure of a convention about hunting in Las Vegas? Just me I guess.

So now I'll go back to watch from the rear seats--hope I did not offend anyone (if I have forgive me). I too like talking about sheep hunting but for the most part I want to be in the hills looking through my spotting scope---I know you feel the same.

thanks for listening,

tid

Oregoncarl, I left Alaska in '03 and spent 5 years in WA (Yelm) before coming to the Southeast. I really enjoyed WA except for the politics in the I-5 corridor. I had a blast chasing the Blacktails out there and was fortunate to stumble on a really nice one that I enjoy staring at on my wall each night.

I too flew with 40 Mile air several times, once into TMA and another time into the Wrangells at Nebesna Glacier. Had fun on that one...a really big brownie surprised me from behind. I felt something looking at me and when I turned around he was about 15' behind me just looking at me. My gun was in my pack and I thought I was about to meet my maker!. After a few seconds (which felt much longer) I slowly reached up to pull the velcro strap holding my rifle on my pack and the bear took off the other way when he heard the sound of the velcro. Talk about sharpening your senses! I was hunting with my good buddy Dave McNeill #1271. He and I have been fortunate to go on many fun hunts over the years, especially when we both lived in Alaska.

Glad to hear you are feeling better after the bypasses. My dad had the same thing done and it made a big difference for him as well.

Isn't that frustrating to go on a hunt with someone who cannot handle the terrain. I had that happen with a guy in 14c once. There were 3 of us with tags and the guy in the best physical shape was in the worst mental shape as it relates to mountains. He ended up hanging out around camp while the other guy and myself went and got the sheep. Just totally intimidated by the mountains. Luckily, he was the third wheel and we could do what we needed to do without him! Good luck drawing that Desert!


tidbit824...Thanks for your post. Would love to hear about those Mongolian hunts. I think this is a great way for some of us to dream in between hunts. Also to think about other possibilities. oregoncarl made a great point by saying that you just have to get out there and hunt while you can. It's hard for me to believe that I'm in my 50's now. It seems like only yesterday when I first got to Alaska at the age of 24 and thought I had the world in the palm of my hands!

Tidbit

Thanks for your two-tidbits worth. As an attorney, I get downright tired of talking and do enjoy listening ... and reading ... what others think and feel. You are right about the allure of hunting. Different strokes for different folks. I grew up in Central Washington. Deer and elk hunting in Kittitas County with my Dad beginning a long, long time ago. First guided hunt in BC in 1965 with my Dad. Between us we got one really big 3x3 mule deer. Only time I ever got him outside of Kittitas County.

You did mention something that I'd like you to think about. Whether it is in Las Vegas with GSC/Ovis or Reno with FNAWS, the conventions are for getting together. If Las Vegas is too much, I hope you get to Reno. Lots of really good people to rub elbows with at both places. The places are secondary. Though I want you to know that I long for Biloxi, Mississippi where GSC/Ovis held their first convention. After two days, I am damned [whoops] tired of the lights and noise of Las Vegas. Unfortunately the Beau Rivage in Biloxi is a bit on the small side. Tunica, Mississippi is a bit larger but still not up to Las Vegas for space. Maybe GSC/Ovis will go back to one of those places in the future just for a change of pace if nothing else.

And let it be known that you and huntinman are just kids. Keep on enjoying life. I refuse to get old .... old is in your head. Your butt may drag and your feet take longer and longer to get from place to place ... that is age. There is a big difference to be exploited. May the wind be always at your back [pushing you up the mountain] and the sun in your face [drying the extra perspiration that comes with time].

And if anyone out there wants to tackle more contentious issues ... or whatever ... my e-mail is but an extension of my moniker herein .... oregoncarl@aol.com.

Carl & group,

Amazing, you guys actually read this stuff. Thank you for your comments. I would like to attend a sheep convention---have never done that. Maybe I could find that desert sheep outfitter I have been looking for? Ya never know. Any ideas on where to apply and have a chance at a tag?

Las Vegas and all the rest just do not have appeal. I do not care for all that "showtown" atmosphere. I live on a small piece of land and my pace of life is slower than most. All that running and rushing around to get to a show or to the pool. As you said---all those lights & noise---just not my style.

First hunt was in "65" for you. First time out for me was elk, mule deer and black bear, out of Corwin Springs Mt., with Gary Duffey. What a hunt and the cost was $2200 plus the lic.. We packed in about 18 miles and had 10 days of hunting. Sunny skies lead to dark clouds and we woke up to about 6 inches of snow and the elk were bugling. Dad went along on this his last elk hunt---he got a dandy. Saw one other elk, which I missed, and a few deer. Sounds much like today except the price.

And just to get the boys going: Mongolia in "83/84" was not much of a hot spot. Yes the hunting was good and I got a small Gobi sheep but that was in the primitive days. Well primitive by todays standards: you flew into Ulan Bantor then drove for hours and hours to get to the camp. You were put up in yurts---just like today---and the food was questionable at best---it was edible that was all. The guides barely spoke english and you did need an interpreter. We worked it all out. Lots of fun.

Today---I have not been there in years---the staff speaks english, cooks well and they are used to hunters from around the world. Small sheep are passed up for bigger trophies. Good for the client and good for the guide because a guy that has just harvested a tip-top sheep is generous. Hunts today are very expensive...you all know this...just price a Gobi Argali sheep hunt. Chatted with Corey Knowlton last week and right now he is in Mongolia hunting a Hangai argali. Now there is a way to spend some dollars. As with me I'll find another way to enjoy my hunting. But, each to his own, I wish I was with him---you bet.

The future for me is good. I'm off to Wyoming for mule deer. Followed by Montana for another mule deer: so ends 2009. I am talking with a couple of good outfitters about Aoudad. I have not booked the trip yet but Desert Safaris has a good reputation and I think I'll give that a try. Fall of 2010 is probably gonna find me looking for a big desert muley---not sure where---Mexico is always open but I think I can find as good a deer here in the USA. Anybody got any ideas for a good desert mule deer? Please let me know.

Sorry kinda got off on other hunting ideas. My next sheep will be the aoudad then desert sheep if I can get a tag in the USA. I really would like a Marco Polo but here...the cost holds me back...just too many other things I can do.

This is how you keep the forum going; thanks for letting me tag along.