Hi folks,
First time poster here, but I did join GSCO and am going to try to get a sheep tag. I'd prefer a big horn sheep, but really I don't think I can be too pickey! I got my GSCO raffle tickets and another one I found a link here to, but what do I do next?
When I apply for a tag, how do I know which units to pick? And which states? Seems like some states can be very expensive. I wasn't really planning on applying to all the states as this could add up to too much money. So, how do I pick which ones I have the best chance of drawing a tag? Any help will be greatly appreciated and if I seem a little ignorant of this whole process please bear with me, I'm a fast learner! Thanks Joe

Hi Joe. Welcome to GSCO! You've asked some great questions and I hope we can give you some great answers. The Winter 2006 issue of Grand Slam will feature complete draw information for the western states. This is a great place to research which tags you are most interested in. There should be enough information to handle the applications yourself, if you don't mind wading through all the red tape.
You may also want to consider using an application service. There are a lot of great services out there that will handle your applications for a fee. Some of the more well known services are:
Hunter Application Service - Larry Altimus: http://www.hunterapplicationservice.com
and
Carter's License Application Service - Garth Carter: http://www.huntinfool.com
You may also consider attending our 2006 Hunter & Outfitter Convention. Garth Carter will present a 2-part seminar on Western Big Game Hunting, plus you can meet some of the best guides & outfitters in the world.
I hope this helps. Our forum members are well-versed in answering similar questions. Check back frequently.

L#1,

An easy and cheap ($5) application is Utah. The downside is the steep draw odds. Starting today, you may apply for desert bighorns via internet application. Non-residents have only two choices: San-Rafael, North or Kaiparowits, East. Generally speaking, the San-Rafael produces smaller rams, but has easier to negotiate terrain. Kaiparowits has rougher terrain and larger rams. Draw odds on either will probably be greater than 1,800 to 1. The link to the application is:

http://www.sci-nevada.com/webutapps/

Ramdreamer posted all the links to the state agencies in another post. Welcome aboard and best of luck!!

Thanks for the replies! I appreciate all the help I can get, I checked into the application services and decided to try it on my own first and then see if it's worth the trouble. I fully understand the long odds of drawing a tag but if I don't start now I may never get to go (I'm 46 already! Yikes!)
I'm in this for the long haul, at least until I think I'm too old to climb mountains. Actually my inspiration is my Dad, he can afford to go now and he's retired but he had to get both knees replaced and is having trouble. I figured I better get moving before that happens to me. Thanks again and I'll keep you informed. Joe

Joe,
You may also want to consider some of the various raffles. Several organizations provide raffles each year. Our own Raffle-Rama will give you chances at four fantastic hunts. We also hold a members only raffle every summer. Don't give up!

Admin! Yeah I'm going broke buying raffle tickets! That darn RamDreamer guy keeps putting links to various raffles and I keep sending checks! One of the reasons I joined was so I could get in on the Raffle-Rama, if I win all these raffles (which I plan on doing!) I figure I ought to have my own Grand Slam by next Xmas!
Seriously though I'm glad I can afford a few raffle tickets if it will help out. I've been searching for other raffles thru RMEF and SCI, if you hear of any please let me know!
I don't know what I'm going to do if I get all these hunts and tags! Maybe I'll take a leave of absence at work and just hunt! Or maybe I better play the state lottery! Thanks again for the help. Joe

Alrighty then! I'm in for the Utah draw! If no one else applies I might have a chance! Seriously, what's next? I'm in the raffles and I love the Utah $5.00 thing, but what now? That Wyoming deal looks pretty steep, am I going to have to start writing checks for that? Thanks Joe

Joe,
If you haven't started applying in Wyoming yet you are way behind there. The only shot you'll have is at the random draw of 25%. That said, if you choose to apply there you better make sure that you only apply in units where there are enough tags to ensure availability of tags for the random draw.

All of the Wyoming information you need to apply can be found on this web page: http://gf.state.wy.us/wildlife/hunting/NonResident/index.asp

You will get hit with a $100 deduct from your refund if you don't draw, for the preference point. The preference point program for sheep is not optional, so it will cost you at least $112 to play in that game ($12 non-refundable application fee & $100 preference point fee).

The latest issue of GRAND SLAM magazine will be in members hands shortly (it's going in the mail the middle of next week I understand). In it will be a state-by-state breakdown for application processes. I wrote it and will ask now that you understand that it's a nightmare to do prior to the states actually saying what's happening in the forthcoming year. Within two weeks of it going into the magazine I had already figured out that there were a number of changes that states implemented without notice, as well as some other changes that were supposed to take place that were either forgotten or delayed. But even with that, it should help a person like you to at least become familiar with all of the various states. At least I sure hope it helps!

RamDreamer, Thanks for the reply, I am anxiously looking forward to that magazine issue! If I may ask a question before I get it, will it recommend the "top" states to apply for? Let me try to explain my question, will it give someone like me (who is 100% rookie at this)an idea of say the top 5 states to apply in. Say a fellow (like me) only had "x" number of dollars to use, which would be my best bets over say a 10 year period? Thanks again! Joe

ps-I'll figure this out eventually!

Lookingfor#1,

Short answer, no. I don't make a living this way and the article I write for Grand Slam annually the last few years is simply assisting the membership (folks like you) with knowing the basics of when, how much, how to get more information, etc. I don't have time to go into draw odds and all that. I have to make a living to afford this insanity myself!

What you're looking for may be something along the lines of a subscription to the publication of Grand Slam Club / Ovis supporter, donor and advertiser Carter's Hunter Services (as was noted by others in an above post). They publish The Huntin' Fool monthly and provide statistics with which you may make up your own mind as to where to put in. As a subscriber, you also have access to them by phone to ask just such questions as you pose above. See http://huntinfool.com/index.html The cost is $100 per year.

Are you going to be at either the FNAWS or GSCO conventions? If so, I'll sit down with you to go over some of this if you like. Let me know.

One thing though. Don't get too caught up in the whole "odds" thing. The odds are so steep, for ANY of these draw or raffle tags, that it will discourage you. One thing I can guarantee is that you will not draw if you do not apply!

I have been watching this as it has evolved. This has answered alot of the questions I have.

Thanks to those of you willing to help.

Phil

RamDreamer, No I won't be making it to the convention, I would really like to but I try to spend the extra money on more hunting stuff and keeping my wife happy the rest of the year! She introduces herself as "The Hunting Widow"! She's great though, she has really been a big help in maing my hunting trips happen.
Anyhow, I actually was going to sign up with Carter's but I spent the 100 bucks on 2 tickets for the raffle! Now I see you posted info for another raffle! You really are trying to get me a sheep aren't you! My problem is that I'm not to lucky whenit comes to raffles, but I have been lucky when it comes to hunting so I can't complain.
Now here's a question about the Wyoming draw, which I need to take care of if I'm going to enter the draw. You mentioned the 25% draw, what's that all about? And is Wyoming really worth entering for sheep? I was going to try to get in Montana as I understand that is a good place for Big Horn Sheep and a couple others if I can afford it. I'll try to check out the Wyoming DF&G website too.Thanks again! Joe

Lookingfor#1,
A) My wife hunts so my problem is of a different nature - double the cost, double the applications to keep track of, etc.

B) If you win one of the raffles with one of those two tickets (or maybe even win TWO hunts), you'll consider it a cheap way to go sheep hunting! I'm not too lucky in raffles either, yet.

C) RE: You mentioned the 25% draw, what's that all about?
Answer: 75% of Wyoming Bighorn licenses go into a draw for the applicants that have the most preference points. Note: Should there ever come a day when, say, 1 person has more preference points than anyone else, then that person will recieve a tag and Wyoming would then put all other folks having the same amount of preference points (again, say, 1 less than the aforementioned person) in a draw - if the number of preference point holders at that levels exceeds the number of tags available. Simple stuff, isn't this? Yeah, right.
After the draw for the 75% of the available tags is completed, then all of those preference point holders tied at the next tier of point accrual, that were unsuccessful in that first draw, get put into the next draw with everyone and their brother that has less preference points (all way down to the newbie with zero). That next draw is for the remaining 25% of the tags. In this draw it is possible for anyone to draw a license, even without any preference points.

D) RE: And is Wyoming really worth entering for sheep?
Answer: That's all up to individual choice. The deck is seriously stacked against you from the start if you are not already in that Wyoming preference point race. MNHunter posted these numbers on another post but I'll post these here so you can get an idea of what you're looking at. Keeping in mind that Wyoming issues, on average, between 40 and 50 sheep permits per year...
Number of people, at the various levels of preference point accrual, going into the 2006 Wyoming draw for Bighorn Sheep:
11 Points - 191
10 Points - 330
9 Points - 225
8 Points - 196
7 Points - 226
6 Points - 1258
5 Points - 1312
4 Points - 1327
3 Points - 1475
2 Points - 1629
1 Point - 2587

E) RE: I was going to try to get in Montana as I understand that is a good place for Big Horn Sheep and a couple others if I can afford it.
Feedback: Montana is a terrific Bighorn state, but again - the odds are long against drawing. I drew a ewe permit there in '04 and had a wonderful hunt. That was the first sheep tag that I ever drew. Definately put in, you can't get drawn if your name's not in the hat so to speak. Put in for as many states as you can afford. Know that I put in for 10 years before seeing my first sheep tag, and then I drew two in one year. I personally put in to 11 or 12 states per year on average.

F) I've rattled on enough. I hope the above is helpful to you.

RamDreamer, That is very helpful! Thank you. Wow, you really have to be committed at the whole preference point thing, but I guess I better get started. Actually it doesn't seem too bad, sure it's going to take awhile but it sure does look like it's doable.(Is that a word?)
Anyhow, I'm going to try to contact all the states that take applications and enter as many as I can and then see what I need to do for the rest. I'll be delaying some points for a year but what the heck, I've waited this long another year won't matter too much. You know if you look at Wyoming, if I'm reading this right, it's going to take at least 11 years to really have a chance, but you still would have a chance at the other 25%. You know if I drew the first year of entering I'd almost feel bad for those people with 10 points, like I said almost!!!
Thanks again Ram Dreamer, I appreciate your help and information, maybe someday I'll be able to help someone as you are helping me. Joe

Lookingfor#1, I do not want to discourage anyone from applying (each person will make his/her own choice), but remember, by the time you have 11pts... there will be many applicants with about 20pts built up. Assuming the current rate of 50 tags/year continues, it will take you about 215 yrs to be included in the Preference drawing. I must admit it amazes me that any new applicants are recruited each year in preference point systems that are as "mature" as Wyoming's. I think if people truly understood how they work, this would not be the case. But hey, there's always the random drawing, and I admire your enthusiasm.

Thanks Provider for your insight, I never really followed thru with the math I guess! Too bad you have to buy the $100 preference point instead of just entering the 25% draw. I think I might pass on this state for now, of course they might re-vamp the preferencit more reasonable.